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20 March 2011 @ 04:18 pm
Future for lgbtfest  
In the previous modly post, knittinggoddess left the following comment:
I understand!
In that case, if anyone has interest in co-moderating a new comm, leave a comment to this one.
In the interest of having a "clean" entry with comments only about this subject, I thought I'd made a separate post for it.

I'm definitely interested and even thought of a new name. What about "lgbtfestforward"?

So ... who would like to get together to talk about how a new community could operate without putting a huge burden on its mods.

I'm definitely in.
Let's talk about it.
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Current Mood: creative
Current Music: Humming with Glee!
 
 
 
a DJ who lived in seclusionknittinggoddess on March 20th, 2011 08:48 pm (UTC)
Hey, good idea.
So, where_no_woman has a pretty in-depth tagging system, and clear rules about what is and what is not allowed in comments or posts. Posting and membership are moderated, in a large part to avoid spam.

Most of the time there are just individuals posting fic and links to fic. Every few months they'll have a post devoted to open prompts that anyone can grab and fill at their leisure. If they do have deadlines, nobody's tracking down the procrastinators or making a big deal over empty fills. There are also sporadic mod posts on a theme, like the recent International Women's Day post, with short fills in the comments. In a recent mod post reaffirming goals of the comm, a mod said that she had to delete only a few off-topic fic.

I'm a little worried that a comm focused on lgbtq themes would attract more trolls than where_no_woman does. Any ideas about that besides moderating membership/posts and disabling anonymous commenting?
sock_de_puppet on March 20th, 2011 09:22 pm (UTC)
I'm a little worried that a comm focused on lgbtq themes would attract more trolls than where_no_woman does. Any ideas about that besides moderating membership/posts and disabling anonymous commenting?

Honestly, that sounds terrible.

Part of the reason why I loved lgbtfest so much is the aspect of community that it fostered. (Which is why I'm so sad to see it shut down so abruptly) Having moderated membership and worse, moderated posting, absolutely destroys that sense of community.

Any effort to go forward should be modeled after *this* community, not another one.

I'll also be honest and say that I like the fest aspect of this community. That's what I want to see going forward, not just a community where people can randomly post whatever they want to write.

Yeah, yeah, it's hard, and it takes up time. That's why you pick up several mods and do it as a group, not taking it on as a solitary measure. Having a community where we just post stories that we write kind of defeats the purpose. I can do that any time of the year.
a DJ who lived in seclusionknittinggoddess on March 20th, 2011 09:39 pm (UTC)
Having moderated membership and worse, moderated posting, absolutely destroys that sense of community.
That's funny, I distinctly remember very regulated posting of entries. I thought only people who had fills to post were allowed posting access, and only during a short span of time to boot. But I never posted a fic, so maybe my memory is flawed.

The fest aspect is definitely quite inspiring. Do you have any ideas about how to make the fest happen in a less regulated manner? I'd be happy to move forward with either a loose format or one like the original lgbtfest, I just think aspects of other communities could be incorporated to great effect.
smirnoffmule on March 20th, 2011 11:55 pm (UTC)
Unless I'm remembering way wrong, anyone who joined the comm had full posting access, and the comm had open membership.
a DJ who lived in seclusionknittinggoddess on March 20th, 2011 11:57 pm (UTC)
The profile page currently says that posting is moderated. Maybe that's only for off-season?
Helenka: Ethan Raynehelenkacan on March 21st, 2011 12:01 am (UTC)
reply copied as follows:
Nope, it's still moderated. When I tried to post this new thing, I received a notification that my post was awaiting moderation. And, then, later, I got an e-mail saying that my post had been accepted. So it's still in effect.
(no subject) - smirnoffmule on March 21st, 2011 12:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - knittinggoddess on March 21st, 2011 12:27 am (UTC) (Expand)
Helenka: ASH as PM (Little Britain)helenkacan on March 21st, 2011 12:00 am (UTC)
Nope, it's still moderated. When I tried to post this new thing, I received a notification that my post was awaiting moderation. And, then, later, I got an e-mail saying that my post had been accepted. So it's still in effect.
Helenka: Glee-Kurt/Blaine first kisshelenkacan on March 20th, 2011 09:25 pm (UTC)
And, yet, for me it was specifically the lgbtq focus that made it so important ... so vital (if not for the hope of increasing understanding, tolerance and eventual acceptance in the world of mundanes at large, then at least for giving us our own "safe space" for self-expression and solidarity ... or even just the option of asking "what if character X were lgbtq" and seeing authors' uniquely creative interpretations).

I would hate to lose that urgency only for the sake of avoiding trolls. If that means moderating memberships/posts or disabling anonymous commenting (which I've never been a fan of ... unless it's about sensitive RL issues for which anonymity is a respectful acceptance of privacy and autonomy), then it's worth it.

I certainly love the concept of a wide tagging system as well as occasional themes. I belong to a couple of comms in the sga fandom that operate in similar ways.

What about rotating modly duties ... or - at the beginning before there's any significant volume - just having whoever of the mods has more time on their hands to Just. Do. It.

In any case, I'm going to go visit the comm you mentioned to get a wee bit of an idea of how it's set up.

TTYL
a DJ who lived in seclusionknittinggoddess on March 20th, 2011 09:47 pm (UTC)
I like the way this comm does tags, by fandom. It might also be nice to have thematic tags, though sexuality and gender are by nature very complex and the tagging might get unruly!

What if we had open membership but moderated posting once or twice for every member, and then after they've shown their interest in posting fic, they could do so without having to push things through a queue? It would cut down on people joining a comm to post spam. I'm not saying we should have a very complicated way of tracking who has posted how many times, maybe just "accept first post, clear member for unmoderated posting".

We could allow posts for only fills to prompts that had been previously posted on the comm or lgbtfest. That might help fine-tune the entries but allow more free posting which would keep the comm going year-round. I was always saddened when the fest ended.
Helenka: Stargate-J/D hughelenkacan on March 20th, 2011 11:23 pm (UTC)
Here are some ideas I had:

1. Definitely start off with "conditional" posting privileges, to be switched over to free posting access once we know a member is ::sighs:: not a troll.

2. What about keeping ALL of the old prompts by importing the posts in question to the new comm. But not to keep the comm static, we could rely on the old prompts for a period of 6-7 months by which time we could accept new prompts and a method of how to do that without driving the mods crazy (er ... crazier). And then 2012 would be able to have new fandoms/shows from 2010 and 2011 in it, making it much more current.

I believe that one of the most incredibly time-consuming aspects of the old fest was to match people with chosen prompts (as only a few writers per prompt were allowed) and to keep track of posting dates. If there is no limit to the number of fics written to any prompt, that necessity can be eliminated. [Besides, I'm nearly blind as it is; I don't need the additional agony of straining my eyesight further.]

3. Start promoting the new comm IMMEDIATELY (once a name is agreed on, all the admin stuff done and mods chosen) and that its intended mission statement is to honour the legacy left to us by lgbtfest while moving forward at the same time.

4. The new comm could go LIVE on June 1 ... giving people a solid minimum of two months to write new stories to old prompts and to be ready to post them. But wait! There's a wrinkle to give this reborn comm some cohesiveness and a teeny bit of structure. How about dedicating a few weeks each month to shows from ONE DECADE ONLY.

For shows that bridged the hump, stories based on earlier seasons would fall into the earlier decade category and those from later seasons into the next decade. I believe it would be fascinating to read fics based on different shows to savour the flavour of that particular decade (especially if certain laws or mores of the times are being put under the microscope).

Even though this may seem to be rigid, I think it would be an excellent way to nudge authors to consider writing in fandoms they had never considered before (as happened to me) or to write in a fandom such as Trek but to switch series (a TOS writer could try the Reboot movie).

Interspersed between these stories-trapped-in-time could be free-for-all weeks where stories in ALL fandoms and ALL decades could be posted. Here's an example of the schedule:
June 1-22, shows/fandoms from the 1960s and earlier
June 23-30, free-for-all, any decade
July 1-22, s/f from the 1970s
July 23-31, f-f-a
Aug. 1-22, s/f from the 1980s
Aug. 23-31, f-f-a
Sept. 1-22, s/f from the 1990s
Sept. 23-30, f-f-a
Oct. 1-22, s/f from the 2000s
Oct. 23-31, f-f-a
Nov. 1-22, s/f from the 2010s
Nov. 23-30, f-f-a
Dec. 1-31, all shows, all decades, with a possible theme of how Character X celebrates any holiday of choice by including their new partner and introducing them into their family and traditions. Becuase this is such a hectic season, I figure dedicating the entire month isn't too outrageous.

And, of course, by then, we'd have figured out where to go from there. But at least the first few months would have a structure and a logical progression.

BTW, one reason why I combined all fandoms created before the 1960s is that there are many young'uns who weren't even born then. ::sighs right down to my old joints:: It may be rash of me to do so ... but we could see the stats from the old fest (and, wow, would YEAR tags be a boon) to know whether a significant proportion of fics were from a long time ago.

Anyway, as you can see, I've already plunged into this headfirst (keep a lookout for a swollen head ... er ... brain).

Let me know what you think!!!
BEWARE OF JENMAR.clex_monkie89 on March 20th, 2011 11:40 pm (UTC)
I love all of your ideas! I feel like the last one though, dedicated decades, might put off more people than it would entice, though.

For instance, I was born in '86, and the vast majority of my fandoms are 90's and more recent. So that's about two months where I wouldn't be interested in anything on the comm, and would probably stop watching it during that time rather than skip through so many posts.
(no subject) - helenkacan on March 20th, 2011 11:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - minkhollow on March 21st, 2011 12:05 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - helenkacan on March 21st, 2011 12:09 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - seiberwing on March 21st, 2011 12:24 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - helenkacan on March 21st, 2011 01:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - clex_monkie89 on March 21st, 2011 01:05 am (UTC) (Expand)
girl, you're a dandelionsarken on March 21st, 2011 12:19 am (UTC)
I believe it would be fascinating to read fics based on different shows to savour the flavour of that particular decade (especially if certain laws or mores of the times are being put under the microscope).

I think that only makes sense for shows that aired in the same time period they were set. For example, Star Trek aired in the 60s, but it doesn't make any sense to write a story about 1960s LGBT issues that is set in the 23rd century. Likewise, it doesn't make sense to write about 1980s LGBT issues in a M*A*S*H story.

I also agree with smirnoffmule about trolls.
(no subject) - helenkacan on March 21st, 2011 12:28 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - knittinggoddess on March 21st, 2011 01:33 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - helenkacan on March 21st, 2011 01:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - knittinggoddess on March 21st, 2011 01:57 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - knittinggoddess on March 21st, 2011 12:29 am (UTC) (Expand)
a DJ who lived in seclusionknittinggoddess on March 21st, 2011 12:19 am (UTC)
1-3 sound great, though I agree with clex_monkie89 that setting aside months for specific decades might hamper interest. The nudge to try other fandoms is an important one though.

What if we had a decade challenge that didn't eclipse other fandom posting? For example, August could have a focus on the 80s, but it would also be okay to post a fic from Futurama. Or we could have a "try a new genre" month, where writers could self-select to try something other than what they usually write. "New genre" could also be "different medium" or "different fandom", whatever seemed appropriate. I belong to a baking comm that uses this sort of challenge to stir up creativity, and it's a great inspiration to branch out.

Hearing from other members, I'm no longer so hyped up about posting moderation. I was thinking it would be useful to keep things on topic, but I guess then the mods can just ask them poster to take it down.
(no subject) - helenkacan on March 21st, 2011 01:10 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - knittinggoddess on March 21st, 2011 01:30 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - helenkacan on March 21st, 2011 02:29 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - knittinggoddess on March 21st, 2011 03:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
smirnoffmule on March 20th, 2011 11:34 pm (UTC)
If I may give some completely random, unsolicited comm-modding advice, which you are completely free to ignore - I wouldn't worry about trolls unless you actually get them. I mod a challenge fest, and I was super-paranoid at first about that kind of stuff, especially since I allow anon commenting and some of our subject matter could be viewed as controversial, but it has just never been a problem. I used to log IPs, but I don't bother any more, and I only moderate posting when I switch it on by accident. The most dramatic thing I've ever had to do is delete an entry that wasn't part of the fest.

penknife would be able to tell you properly but I don't recall lgbtfest having any visible problems? The fest had a structure but it never had moderated membership or posting, IIRC. I feel like that kind of thing reduces traffic and spontaniety, and it's a bit of a pain for people who time their fic posting for certain times of day (What? People do this. It's not just me, right?)

Your call, obviously, since you guys are doing this thing, but that's just my experience of previous troll worries :)
a DJ who lived in seclusionknittinggoddess on March 20th, 2011 11:55 pm (UTC)
It's heartening to know that the trolls aren't a given. I think I've just seen enough in other comms to worry about it. But I'll make a point of not worrying now. :)
(no subject) - smirnoffmule on March 20th, 2011 11:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)